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Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:07:18 No.313693496 ► »313693548 »313693790 »313695125
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Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:07:18 No.313693496 ► »313693548 »313693790 »313695125 »313685717 _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)01:03:13 No.313685717 ► »313686136 »313687423 »313690261 »313693496 »313685554 >Oblivion story and quests were way better That really depends. The Dark brotherhood was great but the thieves guild in Skyrim was way better than in Oblivion where you played fucking Robin Hood for no good reason when you're being part of the THIEVES guild. Bethesda got massive critic for said quest and it shows. Skyrim thieves' guild was dogshit bro The Thieves Guild is not the worst bit of writing in Skyrim. (I think I'd give that honor to the quest in Markarth where you have to deal with the Forsworn.) But I don't want you to think I'm cherry-picking some halfhearted sidequest. This is a major part of Skyrim and a lot of environments, characters, and cutscenes are dedicated it This is a shame, because the Thieves Guild questline is a mess. It's unnecessarily terrible, failing at multiple levels and attempting things that aren't even needed. But I’m getting ahead of myself. Let’s start at the beginning... The introduction to the Thieves Guild is kind of strange. It's not horrible or broken, but for the sake of setting this up I need to plod through these first few quests. Brynjolf walks up to me. a total stranger, and says, 'You've never worked a day in your life for all that coin you're carrying around.” This is a really screwy thing to say to an adventurer. (I imagine running over mountains and fighting through tombs is pretty labor-intensive.) I guess he's supposed to be insinuating that I'm naturally a thief, but he says this to the player regardless of what gear they have or how much money they've got. It's also odd because you can't steal for a living until you join the guild, because you have no way to unload Stolen Goods. He's implying you're a thief, when by definition you can't be one yet. So no matter who you are. he's flat-out wrong. It's also odd to be approached to join the Thieves Guild. I get that the guild has fallen on hard times, but this still feels awkward. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:08:26 No.313693548 ► »313693651 »313693496 I do a little job for him where I steal a ring from person A and slip it into the pocket of person B. I'm actually railroaded into asking why he wants me to do this. Apparently Bethesda thought everyone was too stupid to to untangle the threads of this thuddingly obvious frame-up. This is not the last time they will underestimate the intelligence of the player. Once that’s over I do an initiation where I have to run around town and extort money from a few of the locals. Once that bit is over, we settle into the main plot of the questline. I'm sent to Goldenglow Estate, a bee farm. Maven (the local crime boss) buys honey from the farm and uses it to make mead. The owner of Goldenglow has stopped selling his honey to Maven. and so I’m supposed to teach him a lesson by burning some of The Hives and clearing out his safe. When I rob the safe, I find a bill of sale inside. The owner of Goldenglow sold the property to a mystery person. Dun dun dun! Yeah, not exactly a nail-biting moment. At this point I was already feeling a little underwhelmed. Someone is engaged in a plot to reduce the margins on mead production for the local crime-lord?!? This is not exactly a tale of intrigue worthy of this sort of guild. It's not theft. Heck, it's not even illegal. This might work as some sort of ‘business tycoon" quest line, but for the Thieves Guild? Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:10:27 No.313693651 ► »313693730 »313693548 Next I’m sent to see Maven. The quest line has been building her up. talking about how important she is to the guild and how she has half the city in her grip. Fine, except once this quest is over she never comes up again. I don't mind if the game puts in interesting ‘flavor" characters, but Maven is cutthroat in a very bland way, she never seems terribly important, and she's not at all imposing. She’s just another map marker to chase down on your way to the end of the quest. Despite her build-up as some kind of crime boss, she comes across as a cranky dimwit. You don't even meet her in an impressive office or estate. You meet her in an open hallway of the inn. She doesn't even have a bodyguard. Maven is a jerk to me, and then she sends me to see a guy named Mallus. He sends me to Honningbrew Meadery. which is is a mead distillery in the city of Whiterun. It competes with Maven. The owner of Honningbrew is about to hold a tasting for the captain of the guard, and my job is to poison the mead. Anyway, the captain of the guard takes one sip, and then instantly arrests the owner of the place, promising that he will spend the rest of his life behind bars. The Thieves Guild makes a big deal out of never killing their victims, but this doesn’t seem all that different than killing to me. I mean. I thought the point of the Thieves Guild was to act unseen, and to take valuables without hurting You can murder a civilian in broad daylight and allow the guard to take you to jail for a modest span of time. (Or just pay a 1.000 dollar fine.) But inadvertent food contamination with no victims is worthy of life in prison? It's a worse offense than murder, even though it might have been an accident or sabotage? And the Honningbrew owner never points the finger at me. the mysterious stranger who he recently allowed into the distillery? He pulled a fresh batch of mead from the vat and never saw fit to taste it himself first? Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:11:23 No.313693701 ► File: troDical-iunale-hd-wallpar..).¡do (570 KB, 1920x1200) »313693258 I really wanna know what the capital would look like sticking out of the middle of all this. TES is wonky in a fun way with it's mish mash of real world things. A white tower capital city ir inter-dimensional Deva's. i jungle protected Roman legion's and the king's elite bodyguards of Afro Samurais, raided by Nazi elves, after a war Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:12:02 No.313693730 ► »313693814 »313693651 Then the captain of the guard tells Mallus to take over, and Mallus tells me he’s going to start converting the distillery to make mead for Maven. Wha?? Look, if the health inspector shuts down your McDonald’s, the police don't come in and give the building to Burger King. Who owns this place? What's happening here? I check the books, and find this place was cutting a deal with the same mystery person who bought Goldenglow. I bring this information back to Mercer Frey, and he’s very concerned. He says they’re obviously facing an organized and well-funded enemy. He's impressed with them. Dude, are you kidding? We just made a fortune. This foe cut a deal with this distillery, but we did a bunch of nonsense and now we own it. (Or run it. Whatever.) They bought the Goldenglow bee farm, but now they don't have anywhere else to sell their honey. They spent a fortune, and have nothing. This other party is not a criminal mastermind. (Hoo boy. Just wait.) They tried to legitimately compete against deeply entrenched organized crime, and lost everything before they made a single shiny coin. Mercer says they were doing this to drive a wedge between Maven and the Guild. How would making mead accomplish that? If a bunch of people conspire to control all the beer in the city, and then someone else tries to sell beer, the conspirators wouldn't necessarily turn on each other. They would probably work together to drive out the competition. That’s the whole reason they conspired in the first place. Mercer, worried about this inept non-threat, sends me to see Gulum-Ei, the guy who brokered the property sale. After a bunch of screwing around. Gulum-Ei finally breaks down and tells me that the mystery client is Kariiah. Twenty-five years ago she apparently killed the previous guild leader and then vanished. (Twenty-five years. Remember that.) Now she's back and... trying to break into the mead business? Or something. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:13:21 No.313693790 ► »313693496 Small point of contention. If you have no gold and shitty gear Brynjolf s starting speech is different. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:13:50 No.313693814 ► »313693861 »313693941 »313693730 Kariiah left a clue. She told Gulum-Ei that she was going 'back to where the ending began” Mercer believes that this can only mean one place: The ruin where she killed Gallus. the previous guild leader. Mercer decides to meet me there so that the two of us can kill her I arrive at the ruin to help Mercer Frey kill Kariiah. There is this short bit of dialog at the start where Mercer is able to pick the lock of an 'impossible lock” door. Then halfway through the dungeon he does it again, bypassing a door that you normally can't open, even with maximum lockpicking skill. This becomes important later. I have to say that Mercer is about the worst thief in the world. Instead of letting the player pick off targets from the shadows, he charges into battle, screaming combat taunts and blocking my arrows. He blunders into traps, even though any halfway-leveled stealth character has access to a perk that makes them immune to setting off traps. He's actually a liability for anyone trying to use stealth. And I imagine that ‘stealth" is a pretty common appraoch for players who are running through the Thieves Guild questline. Crimey. Then at the end of the dungeon. I enter the final chamber and suddenly fall over. Kariiah has hit me with a paralysis arrow which will never exist or be mentioned again in the gameworid. despite the fact that it would be the Most Useful Thing Ever. Then she and Mercer talk. It is revealed that Mercer was the one who killed Gallus (the old guild leader) and pinned the crime on Kariiah. She admits she can't hope to beat Mercer in a fight so she turns invisible and runs off. Having outlived my usefulness. Mercer then comes over and stabs me. Anonymous 10/20/15(T ue)03:15:01 No.313693861 ► »313693957 »313695519 »313693814 Outside, I am revived by Kariiah. My character quite reasonably greets her with, “You shot me!" ‘No, I saved your life." she explains. See, the paralysis arrow she used on me slowed my heart rate so I didn't bleed out. It took her a year to perfect the poison, so she only had enough for one shot. Kariiah dear, if you had shot Mercer Frey then my life wouldn't have needed saving in the first place. You dunce. If you push me in front of a bus and then save my life with CPR. that doesn't cancel out the crime of pushing me in front of a bus. What if he'd decided to cut my head off? Your plot-arrow wouldn't have done me much good then, would it? You had two targets: A stranger, and the super-powerful, completely evil guy who murdered your best friend and who you admit you can't hope to defeat in battle. You chose to shoot the stranger, then run away and let the bad guy kill the stranger, then tried to recruit the stranger. What is wrong with you? If it took you a year to ‘perfect" the formula, then why don't you make more now that you know how? Why didn’t you make enough for a few arrows, just in case you missed? So much of this could be fixed with just a few common-sense changes to dialog. Instead of Kariiah getting self-righteous about saving your life, have her say, ‘I thought I was shooting Mercer. It was dark and foggy in that tomb. I wanted it that way for the ambush. I wasn’t expecting Mercer to bring someone else. Sorry you got caught up in all of this." This would make her action understandable, and might make Mercer seem kind of clever for bringing you along. You could also have Kariiah explain that she stole the paralysis arrow from some wizard in Cyrodil. This would: Explain why she only had one. Explain why you can't make or obtain more yourself. Establish her as a thief. Boom. Two painful contrivances fixed with some very small alterations to dialog. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:16:29 No.313693941 ► »313694045 »313693814 Another point of contention. She explains about the poison she used on the arrow Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:16:33 No.313693946 ► »313681594 fOPl its a linear rpg so the story stays fast paced and feels fuller. I used to hate skyrim too until I strated reading all the books. The lore is where its at in Skyrim. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:16:43 No.313693957 ► »313694045 »313693861 She says that she has found Gallus’ diary. Unfortunately, it's written in an unknown language. Gaullus was a human, but wrote the diary in some other language for unknown reasons, and now we don't know what it says. She says her plan was to capture Mercer and bring him before the guild to face his crimes. How was that going to work? She has no proof. Everyone thinks she killed Gallus. Now she's gotten involved with this foolish scheme with the mead-brewing, which simultaneously made her look MORE guilty while also wasting all her money. She was planning on dragging Mercer's limp body into the guild headquarters, where they would remember her as the person who killed the old guild leader, tried to interfere with their mead business, and then ambushed their current guild master. And in her defense she was going to hold up a diary which none of them could read, which couldn't be confirmed to belong to Gallus, and which might not contain anything useful even if it was translated. And it took her twenty-five years to come up with this plan? Now, you might argue that she didn't mean for everyone to find out about the mead-brewing business. However, her entire plan depended on the guild figuring it out. She left all those clues, and then came to this ruin to ambush Mercer. What if we hadn't tracked down Gulum-Ei? What if Gulum-Ei hadn't spilled the beans? What if Mercer hadn’t picked up on that clue about ‘where the end began". What if Mercer decided - quite reasonably - that there was nothing to be gained from walking into an obvious ambush and decided to hang out in guild headquarters? I guess she would have sat in that dungeon until her Dumb Ass froze to death. She sends me off to see some scholar to see about having the book translated. I guess she’s been too busy for the last quarter century to look into trifling details like that. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:18:16 No.313694045 ► »313694089 »313693941 Read the rest, the explanation is dogshit »313693957 The scholar tells me that the diary is written in ancient Falmer. The Falmer are a race of blind, underground-dwelling mole-people who hate the outside world and kill anything that enters their domain. Only one man knows how to translate Falmer: Calcemo the Mage. Off we go. Calcemo refuses to help. He's just completed his study of the Falmer. and is completely unwilling to share his findings. So, I have to break into his laboratory and steal his research notes. Wow really? You need me to steal something? Funny that after all these hours of screwing around, the first job that sends me to really steal something is coming from someone outside the guild. It turns out Calcemo's "notes" are a giant stone carving built into the ruins. I don't know what the carving says. It's evidently a translation guide? As far as I can tell, it was a guide written by the Dwarves, to explain how to translate the ancient Falmer language into modern-day common, which didn't exist yet. Makes perfect sense. (This is actually a quasi-puzzle. You have to gather a roll of paper and some charcoal from the next room, in order to produce a rubbing of the engraved text. Of course, if you happen to have those items already from compulsive looting then the rubbing will just appear without explanation, but it’s still an interesting idea. Of course, it ruins the prospect of us actually stealing a physical object, which is something I was hoping I'd get to do at some point in this quest chain. I suppose, this is kind of like copyright infringement, which some people think is theft.) I take the copied engraving back to the scholar, and we meet Kariiah in the basement of an inn. Calcelmo the mage spent years studying that engraving in order to unravel the Falmer tongue. I don't know why. The scholar is instantly be able to read the diary as soon as I show him the rubbing. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:19:22 No.313694089 ► »313694180 »313694045 The scholar reads in little bits and pieces. It's hard to do it justice here in this write-up, but the main points are: Gallus observed that Mercer was living a lavish lifestyle, spending vast amounts of coin. You can't be serious! You're telling me a member of the THIEVES GUILD was rolling in money and living large? What’s the world coming to? Gallus suspected that Mercer was stealing from the guild vault. Dude, you were the guild master. Don't you have some way of tracking this? Don't you know what's in the vault? Can't you have someone keep an eye on it? Isn't that. like, your job? There's some mention of the 'Nightingales" and the 'Twilight Sepulchre". We’ve been hearing about the "Nightingales" now and again throughout this quest line. Apparently they're some sort of super-secret society. So secret that nobody believes they exist. Mercer. Kariiah. and Gallus were all members. And to get super-pedantic: Did the ancient Falmer really have a word for ‘Nightingale”? And was something that specific really detailed on that rubbing? Kariiah freaks out at the mention of the Twilight Sepulchre. It turns out that whatever Mercer has done, it's bad. Like, super bad. Kariiah tells me to meet her back at the guild headquarters. We're going to confront the guild. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:19:34 No.313694104 ► »313681594 iOP) Remove the mods and holy shit it's the same crap all over again. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:21:05 No.313694180 ► »313694267 »313694089 So we're now working for Kariiah, who was framed twenty-five years ago for murdering the guild master. Mercer is the real murderer, and now he’s running the guild. The old guild master was Gallus, and we now have a translation of his journal. So far we've learned that: Mercer Frey stole from the guild vault. Then he stole something from the "Twilight Sepulchre". Then he killed Gallus. blamed the murder on Kariiah. and ascended to guild master. Then he ran the guild for 25 years while Kariiah did a whole lot of nothing. (Well, she found Gallus' journal. I would think that finding the personal journal of your best friend, partner in crime, guild leader, and lover ought to take less than two and a half decades, but what do I know? Maybe it was, like, way, way down in the couch cushions.) Then Kariiah and I head back to confront the guild. (Er. Confront them with what?) The guild members are angry when we arrive. The thing with Gallus happened twenty-five years ago when most of these people would have been kids, but they seem to know who Kariiah is on sight. They want to know why I've brought this murderer into the guild. Then Kariiah shows them the translated copy of Gallus' journal. Brynjolf reads it, and immediately concludes that Kariiah is telling the truth. Why would any of these people accept this diary as proof? It was written out by that scholar guy. They can't read the original, and even if they could they have no reason to believe it's legitimately from Gallus. How do they know we didn't just write whatever we wanted in a book? But no, the will and loyalty of the entire guild turns on this single bit of ‘evidence", and they immediately embrace the woman who was trying to “ruin" the guild yesterday. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:21:07 No.313694181 ► »313681594 iOPl >lt’s 1000 times better than Skyrim, Not it's not Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:21:54 No.313694236 ► »313690347 >Makes doing a non-combat character challenging >a bad thing Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:22:20 No.313694267 ► »313694356 »313694180 The dialog gets really sloppy here, with Brynjolf reading from the book and saying that. ‘Mercer has been stealing from the guild for years." when the book is obviously limited to events of 25 years ago. For further proof, they decide to look in the guild vault. Someone points out that the vault door is un-pickable and requires two different keys to open. One guy uses his key. then Brynjolf uses the second, and they look inside: It's gone! The vault is cleaned out! There are so many problems with this that the complete deconstruction would be an article in and of itself. But to cover the major points: If he's been stealing from the fault for ‘years" then how did nobody notice? I assume people have been putting treasure INTO the vault? Didn't they ever notice that the loot was vanishing? And what's all this for? Why would the guild pile up riches in some common pot? Is this some kind of hippie communist Thieves Guild, where everyone shares? Why don't they just split the loot between themselves? I doubt they have to worry about paying property taxes on their sewer-base. More importantly, the entire quest line began with repeated references to how the guild had fallen on hard times. If they were so broke, then why did they have a vault full of gold? Or if times were so tough, why are they so distraught to find the vault empty? How do they know that Mercer is the one who cleaned it out and that he was acting alone? You can explain some of these questions, but only at the expense of others. This entire sequence is deeply flawed, and we're only just getting started. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:23:43 No.313694337 ► >Decided to give Oblivion a shot awhile back >Get mods for it >Realize that all these mods I'm getting are just trying to make the game more like Morrowind Not really a point of playing Oblivion anymore at this rate Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:24:00 No.313694356 ► »313694408 »313694267 All of this is supposed to be a huge reveal, but it falls completely flat. We don't have any stake in this. Nobody really talked about the vault and it was never established that people cared or even thought about this vault. We never saw inside of it until now. so it's not a terrible shock for the player to lose something they didn't have two minutes ago. Instead of being a turning point in the story, it's this awful traffic jam of fridge logic. The thieves ask how Mercer got into the vault, since it needs two keys. You would think that thieves would be able to wrap their heads around a conundrum like this. You know: Maybe he made a copy of one of the keys? It's mechanical, not magical, so making a copy shouldn't be that hard, especially if you have 25 years to work on it and you know where the originals are kept. This sequence hinges on this two-key business, but the game never even explains how it works. Brynjolf has a key. Devlin has a key. Does Mercer have a key? Are the two keys the same? Are they interchangeable? How many keys are there? Does anyone else know about Mercer's super-lockpick ability? On and on. I'm not saying these questions are plot holes. I’m just saying the game didn't give us enough information to understand this crime or make sense of anyone’s reactions to it. We'll find out later how he opened the doors, but it’s beside the point. The hard part of cleaning out this vault has nothing to do with opening the stupid door. The vault doors are well-lit. and the outer room is always full of people. Even if the doors weren't locked, how did Mercer get these noisy, heavy things open without anyone noticing? And then how did he lug seven treasure chests worth of loot under a light, across the room, and up a ladder without anyone noticing? Even if he had perfect invisibility, people should still have noticed these very prominent doors being open. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:25:01 No.313694408 ► »313694496 »313694356 I'm sorry guys, but if he made off with that much bling all at once without you noticing, then you deserved it. In fact, your anger strikes me as being really, really hypocritical. We’re all thieves here. We know how this works. You guys just suck. Brynjolf then sends me to a house that Mercer owns in town. Mercer never stays there. Brynjolf tells me. but I'm supposed to look for clues there anyway. I break into Mercer's place and check it out. In the basement I find Mercer's plans, which I bring back to Brynjolf. He explains that the plans show that Mercer is going after the Eyes of the Falmer. This is a major pair of watermellon-sized gems. This job was a pet project of Gallus before he died. Brynjolf says Mercer is going after them as a final insult to the guild. Dude, it’s been twenty-five years since Gallus died, and you never made any move for these jewels. I think it was really sporting of him to wait this long. You had plenty of time to go and get them if you wanted them. If you couldn't be bothered then you get no sympathy from me. Brynjolf says that if Mercer gets his hands on those gems, he’ll be gone, and set up for life. So we have to stop him. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:26:30 No.313694496 ► »313694604 »313694408 Isn't he set up for life anyway, now that he has seven chests worth of loot in his pockets? If he's going after the Eyes of the Falmer. then wouldn’t he have taken his plans with him? Maybe he got those gems months ago? Or years ago? Rather than chase him into the tomb and hope he's there, why don't we camp the exit and wait for him to come out? Why not figure out how he plans to leave Skyrim? Before we go after the bad guy. Kariiah says we have to follow her. Mercer is a Nightengale(!) so we can’t hope to defeat him without preparation. Game designer: Once again you have shot yourselves in the foot. You could sell the idea of Mercer being a badass if you hadn’t already forced us to team up with him and shown us what a complete clown he is. You undercut your villain before you even established him as a villain! Even though we’re supposedly in a hurry to follow Mercer, let's follow Kariiah So we meet these two idiots at Nightingale HQ, and Kariiah tells us we’re here to 'get the edge we need to defeat Mercer Frey". Now, if you want to defeat Mercer Frey, all you really need to do is challenge him to a contest of not screaming a combat taunt for ten consecutive seconds, but whatever. Dear Bethesda: Do you understand that nightingales are birds, and not usually associated with power, cunning, or even darkness? I mean. I know you've got the word “night" in there, but the name actually means "night songstress". As in singing. They are not harbingers of danger, adventure, or secrecy. They’re actually cute, fluffy little birds. It's a terrible, terrible name for your super- secret cult. You basically named yourselves. "The Adorable Little Songbirds". It sounds really stupid to hear people talking about ‘Nightingales" like they're something insidious, and that’s before we see how completely useless they are. I can't shake the feeling you were thinking of owls, crows, ravens, or blackbirds. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:28:42 No.313694604 ► »313694663 »313694496 So Kariiah finally explains things to us. In order to defeat Mercer, we must become Nightingales. Doing so means swearing to serve Nocturnal in this life and the next. You serve her in life, and in death. And in return she gives you... the game never actually says what you’re supposed to be getting out of this. Oh. Kariiah acts like we re getting super powers or something, but in this deal no actual powers are conferred. You might say we’re getting this crappy vendor trash armor in return, but we get that before the oath and it does nothing to help us defeat Mercer. There is no reason to accept this deal except that this idiot questline requires it. Mercer was able to open the guild vault because he stole the Skeleton Key. It's an artifact of Nocturnal. It lets you 'open any door". (Of course, when you get it, it does no such thing. It's just an un-breakable lockpick with no other bonus.) It supposedly allows you to unlock your full potential, which is why Mercer is allegedly powerful. As Nightingales, they swore to protect the key and make sure it’s never used. (Which sort of makes you wonder why it exists in the first place, but whatever - gods don't really need to make sense the way people do.) Apparently Mercer defiled the temple by stealing this key, which he's been using to steal from the guild. Kariiah gets all high and mighty about this, but of course she never bothered to check on the key or the temple during her twenty-five year exile. If she did, she wouldn't have needed to translate Gallus' stupid journal to figure out that Mercer took the key. Stealing the key brought a curse on the guild, giving everyone bad luck, which is why the guild is supposedly on hard times now. You do get some (really, really crappy) once-a-day powers as part of becoming a Nightingale, but you don't get those until after you've defeated Mercer Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:29:43 No.313694663 ► »313694720 »313694604 So then we have this stupid ceremony where we all pledge our eternal souls to Noctural, who manifests as a glowing orb of light with an agonizingly smug voice that makes you want to throttle her disembodied neck. She even says, ‘Kariiah. I'm surprised at you. This deal is clearly weighted in my favor." Yeah, I guess it would be, since YOU AREN'T OFFERING ANYTHING. So now we’re Nightingales, with all the rights and privileges that entails. (None.) Along with the costs. (My soul, apparently.) And we can finally go after Mercer, now that we’ve given him a massive head start. Our team of morons (and we must include the player as one of the morons, since you have to role-play a moron to agree to Nocturnal’s deal) meets at yet another ruin where we hope to comer Mercer Frey. I meet up with Kariiah and Brynjolf. Assuming he's the slowest man in the world. Mercer should still be inside trying to recover the Eyes of the Falmer. Now we just have to go in and murder him. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:30:48 No.313694720 ► »313694781 »313694663 We’re here in this ruin with Kariiah and Brynjolf to kill Mercer. Now, we’re all members of the Thieves Guild. In fact, we re all members of the Nightingales, the secret cult within the Thieves Guild. You would think that if anyone is ready for some sneaking around, it would be these two. But you would be wrong. You would be so wrong. You should be embarassed at how wrong you'd be. Here is how a fight goes: I. striking from the shadows, drop a foe with a single arrow. The other foes in the area notice this, and begin searching for me. If I were on my own, I would slink away and hit them again from another vantage point, until they were all dead. With the Nightingales in tow, things work a bit differently. As soon as foes begin looking for me. these two idiots start screaming combat taunts, running out into the open and starting a huge melee. This attracts every foe in the room. They block my shots until they run out of hitpoints and go down. (They take a knee. They’re actually immortal.) The foes then abandon them and make a beeline for me, thus forcing my squishy. stealth-focused character into this huge clusterfarg of a battle. Assuming I manage to survive, Kariiah and Brynjolf then stand up and spout a couple of triumphant taunts. This is a move right out of the Leroy Jenkins playbook. (More of a pamphlet, really. It only has one play.) It is completely mystifying to me that the designers would saddle you with these two morons for this extended dungeon crawl. They ruin the atmosphere, they ruin the gameplay. and they’re a constant reminder that the quest I'm on makes no damn sense. Their one saving grace is that they are just as stupid and clumsy as Mercer, and you can lead them into traps to amuse yourself. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:32:14 No.313694781 ► »313694864 »313694720 We reach the final chamber and the game has the nerve to grab my camera for a cutscene. It stands me up and forces me to listen to the other characters yatter on while I'm prevented from taking any action. Mercer uses his powers to make Brynjolf attack Kariiah. So after babysitting these two idiots through the entire complex, they’re out of the fight. This is a shame, because this is the only fight where they might be useful. Now, the game hasn't really pulled the player out of stealth. Although, it's perfectly understandable for the player to think this is the case, since your foe is looking at you and talking to you. By reflex I hit the crouch button as soon as the conversation ended, which caused me to stop sneaking, since the conversation hadn't actually outed me. This camera-grab is sloppy and frustrating, but I don't have time to dwell on all the reasons this is bad from a game design perspective. Let’s just move on. The room we’re in is collapsing. Kariiah mentioned something earlier about how Mercer's power is causing this place to become unstable. It’s not clear if he's doing this on purpose, or how it could possibly benefit him. or where this power is coming from. Is it some secret power held by the Skeleton Key? Is this an innate power that the key unlocked? Who cares! Camera shaking means tension and excitement! Kariiah and Brynjolf loop through some canned messages while they fight, and Mercer brings out his well-worn collection of combat taunts. It is, I have to say, very chatty in here. Anyway. Mercer bites it and I grab the skeleton key and the Eyes of the Falmer so we can leave. Mercer's earthquakes cause a tunnel to collapse and the chamber to flood. This would be a cool sequence if this entire setup wasn’t so humiliatingly contrived and absurd. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:33:33 No.313694864 ► »313694932 »313694781 We make our escape. Outside, Kariiah tells me that it's time to take the skeleton key back to Nocturnal. She can't do it, because she's afraid to face Nocturnal again after her failure. Thank goodness. Maybe Nocturnal will pay me for babysitting these two. So I'm sent to a new ruin. Inside the door I meet the ghost of Gallus. Yeah. In case you thought that whole, ‘Serve her in death" business was just hyperbole. We re apparently doomed to spend eternity locked in the dusty old tomb. Sadly, the other Nightingale ghosts have all gone insane and will attack me on sight. So, I might end up spending eternity locked in a tomb and insane. This deal with Noctural is the most expensive nothing I've ever bought. I get to the end of the dungeon, stick the Skeleton Key back in its proper Skeleton Lock, and Nocturnal shows up to blather at me. She’s so smug she should challenge Reaver to an eye-rolling contest. Kariiah ends the questline by talking about how the guild is restored and there are pockets just brimming with coin out there. There are valuables, ripe for the taking! Let’s go be thieves! Pffft. Why start now? Hey genius, how about we start with tracking down the seven treasure chests of loot that Mercer swiped? No? You forgot about those didn’t you? Oh well. Have fun picking pockets. Loser. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:34:50 No.313694932 ► »313694996 »313696493 »3136916£4 I get it. This last quest is supposed to be ironic, because we re returning something instead of stealing it. Except, it fails at this because none of my other quests ever had anything to do with stealing valuable items I extorted money with vandalism and threats of violence as part of my initiation I stole a document (and committed arson) at Goldenglow Estates. I perpetrated fraud and food poisoning at Honningbrew Meadery I attempted the murder of Kariiah I made a copy of some intellectual property by making the rubbing of the translation guide. You might think that the Eyes of the Falmer count, but that wasn’t a heist. Those were in a ruin. If that's theft, then Indiana Jones is the biggest Cat Burglar in history. Theft was never, ever a theme of these quests, so one more quest of non-theft isn’t ironic at all. It's Just more non-Thief crap for me to do. You had idiot berzerker companions with you for the two set-piece dungeons, so the missions barely involved sneaking. Let's recap: Mercer stole the Skeleton key. which allowed him to rob the guild Then he hung around and ran the guild diligently for twenty-five years. (Maybe he was stealing, but it was never enough for anyone to notice. Nobody ever complained about his leadership.) Then once they were (allegedly) broke, he cleaned them out and left. Isn’t the point of theft to get something for nothing? Why didn’t he rob the guild twenty-five years ago when they were supposedly flush with cash? Working for a quarter century seems like a pretty labor-intensive means of theft. Gallus knew Mercer was stealing from the vault, but he never took action. He was the guild leader, yet he made no effort to expose Mercer He knew Mercer had stolen the Skeleton Key. but he never told Kariiah. We don’t know the details of what happened when Mercer killed Gallus. but if Gallus had just said something then Mercer's entire plan would have failed. Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:35:03 No.313694945 ► »313695358 »Oblivion comes out »people call it shit, praise Morrowind »Skyrim comes out »people call it shit, praise Oblivion Wonder if this trend will continue Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:36:07 No.313694996 ► »313695087 »313694932 Kariiah was blamed for the murder and then did nothing for twenty-five years. She never tried to clear her name. Never checked on the temple she swore to protect. Never tried to recruit new Nightingales to replenish their ranks. When she did take action by going into the mead business, it was convoluted, expensive, doomed to failure, and ran counter to the goals of clearing her name. When she at last had the chance to capture her nemesis, she shot a stranger instead. Brynjolf (and the rest of the guild) accepted the translation as irrefutable evidence that the guildmaster was the Bad Guy. Then they somehow failed to notice someone carrying off seven chests of loot that shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Nocturnal is a deity (or some sort of supernatural being) and doesn’t need to make sense that other characters do. but for the sake of completeness: She created an artifact and then formed a secret society to prevent anyone from using it. When she was betrayed, she didn't bother telling her remaining follower. She never revoked the powers she gave Mercer after he took the key. Instead, she put a curse on a group of people who had never heard of the artifact, had nothing to do with its theft, didn't benefit of its use, and who had no way of making it right. The Player is railroaded into accepting this idiotic sequence of actions, is prevented from asking reasonable questions, and is forced to ask stupid ones. (Particularly at the beginning ) Anonymous 10/20/15(Tue)03:37:37 No.313695087 ► »313696085 »313691996 You know what? I would tolerate all of this willfully stupid and lazy writing if the quests themselves worked thematically. In Oblivion, the Thieves Guild quest ended with a major heist of an item of supreme value from a well-guarded location. (You actually steal one of the Elder Scrolls, for which this franchise is named ) The Dark Brotherhood quests in Skyrim are a fun chain of assassinations, beginning with bottom-feeders and ending with a daring, audacious kill that will go down in Tamriel history. Along the way there are twists, turns, and betrayals. Sure, there are a few plot holes, but at least you're playing the part of an assassin. The Thieves Guild quests are this muddled chain of gibberish actions that don’t follow any sort of logic and don’t have anything to do with sneaking and stealing. The Thieves Guild quests were packed with cruft. The game had to explain property dealings, the structure of organized crime in Riften. mead brewing, the purpose of the Nightingales, the nature of Nocturnal, and the business with the Falmer language. The game would force-feed you a bunch of exposition, which usually was only important for one quest. (And was often illogical or selfcontradictory ) Then instead of building on that established base, the game would bring out a new slate of plot elements that needed to be explained. This can work when the writer has a passion for world-building, foreshadowing, and a knack for misdirection and plot twists, but that is not the case here. This writer had no head for this sort of thing, and I don't understand why they went to all this trouble. All in all. the thieves' guild was probably the second stupidest questline in the game
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File: dvcx.pna (1.3 MB, 1024x742)
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»174790757
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File: dvcx.pna (1.3 MB, 1024x742) □ Anonymous H12/08/22(Thu)23:25:50No.174790646 ► »174790757 >Be Libyan freedom fighter >Bolt a machine gun to your Toyota and start fighting the government >Blond white guy with a surfboard asks for a ride to the beach What do you do? □ Anonymous 'll 12/08/2
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86 KB PNG
• Anonymous	03/21 /23(Tue)06:56:27 No.250341651
»250341473 (OP) #
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